Matthew Caws (NADA SURF) on Dirt from the Road podcast

Nada Surf frontman Matthew Caws and Brett Newski discuss the happy acceptance of aging, attention spans, latchkey childhood, funny "label guy" moments, conquering vanity, and letting go.

Matthew Caws and Brett Newski live

Matthew Caws and Brett Newski live

SNIPPET:

Matt: As I age I’m becoming a lot less anxious, and I think that’s the result of something I didn’t know about, one of those things nobody tells you. But I think as you get older you get calmer, because your body has that much more evidence that you’re not in major trouble.

If I’ve made it this far, maybe there are no demons and monsters actually leaping at me in the moment, either literally or figuratively. I’m not in too much danger, so maybe I can let my guard down..

Brett: It’s really nice to hear you say that, that it’s possible to get a lot less anxious as you age.

Matt: For sure.

Brett: I guess when you're young, especially in your 20s, you have os much excess energy to spend on things. IT’s almost like you're wealthy in a bad way, where you're just blowing your money on extra large swimming pools and helicopters that you can’t afford. It’s like “well I have the energy, I’ll just go out seven nights a week.”

Matt: Right, right, sure. You’ve got a lot more stamina for harming yourself. But I’ve heard it put this way by my friend. Your ego, when you're a toddler, is protecting you. It’s telling people around you, you know, what makes you cry out? I’m hungry, cold, tired, and have to go to the bathroom. You’re’ alerting people around you to this trouble. But as you get older, you can retire your ego. Thank it for protecting you all this time, and alerting the powers that be around you to your needs, but now, you can retire it. You don’t have to freak out over everything. I can help myself, and I don’t need to scream anymore. Do you know what I mean

Brett: Totally. You can retire that jersey, hang it up in the rafters.

Matt: Exactly. A wonderful career. 

Brett: You don’t have to look at it again if you don’t want to. That’s cool, man. And I will say, you’ve done a great job of aging gracefully, your whole band included. Is there anything to that?

Matt: We were a little older, anyway. So when our first record came out in 1996, I was 29. Which I would consider to be a good five or six years ahead of what you’d expect from a rock and roll band kicking off. 

Brett: Especially in that era, yeah.

Matt: Because it’s not the hargest music to play, so you can get up to speed very fast. There’s so many 19, 20, 21 year old wizards out there. Here’s the thing I’ve never told anyone. I started to get impatient with my hair when I was around 32 or 33, and the person who cut my hair said, “Hey, I notice a little gray here, want me to do anything?” 

And I was like “...no. Can we not talk about it? Or what do you have in mind?” And she said, “Oh it’s something called vegetable dye. It’ll kind of cover it up.” And in a moment of utter vanity and embarrassment, I said yeah. 

And then when I hit 45 or something, that wasn’t working anymore. And I have definitely a double standard, gender-wise, in that in every other way I feel completely blank about gender. I truly believe we’re totally the same in every way. Except that, it’s kind of weird when dudes totally cover up their hair.

I don’t know why, it’s a total double standard, I can’t defend it. There should be nothing wrong with it.

Brett: I feel you gotta double down on it for your own confident and mental health, just fall forward.

Matt: Yeah.

Brett: I got a few grays coming on, I’m 34, and I might have a silver head in a couple of years, which I think is kind of cool.

Matt: And that’s awesome! The thing that happened when it stopped working for me, I went to the dark side for four months. And by that, I mean, I called a best friend of mine, and asked her what to do...and I went and had it done. And it made me blonder than I’ve ever been in my whole life. 


And this guy who runs City Sling, a German label, is a very honest guy, and he was like, “WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR HAIR!?” And he called it out, and at that moment, finally, something in me was like, “I’m doing something I don’t feel good about. And that’s bad for me.”

So then I was very happy to be free of that, that embarrassment cured me immediately. And of course, you should just be who you are. 


Brett: And to anyone out there who wants the truth on a decision, call a German person. And they’ll tell you how it is.

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*cover photo: annie dressner